S2 E4: How To Enjoy Wealth Without Feeling Guilty

You are listening to The Wealth Mindset Show, where Hixon Zuercher Capital Management’s team of finance professionals, portfolio managers, and a life coach come together to tackle complex topics in finance and retirement planning, so you don’t have to. From investment strategies and wealth management to tax planning, retirement income, and aligning your money with your values and purpose, The Wealth Mindset Show offers the tools to thrive.

 

Austin Wilson:

All right. Hey, hey, hey. Welcome to The Wealth Mindset Show, where our Hixon Zuercher team will have conversations on managing wealth, navigating retirement, and making smart decisions for a secure, meaningful future. I’m Austin Wilson, Director of Investments at Hixon Zuercher Capital Management.

Josh Robb:

And I’m Josh Robb, Director of Wealth Management at Hixon Zuercher Capital Management. And today we’re joined by two advisors. We have Jessica Hinks and Chase Rose with us. Jess, why don’t you tell us a little bit about yourself?

Jessica Hinks:

I’m the senior wealth advisor and I’m a certified planning professional, mom of two and a lover of all things finance.

Josh Robb:

And Chase?

Chase Rose:

Yeah, I’ve been here before, so you guys should know me, but I’m an associate wealth advisor here. I’ve been here for a few years. I’m engaged to my lovely fiancé, Katie, with two dogs at home and yeah, that’s me.

 

[1:13] – The Psychology Behind Why We Feel Guilty Spending Our Money

Austin Wilson:

Chase Rose. All right. So today we’re going to be answering the question, how to enjoy wealth without feeling guilty. And I feel like that’s kind of a loaded question because it can go a lot of different directions, but I guess we’re going to be talking about why so many people feel guilty about enjoying money now because isn’t that what we’re working for? To earn all the money? So, what are your thoughts guys? Jess, do you want to start? What are some thoughts on why people feel guilty enjoying their money?

Jessica Hinks:

Yeah, well, both people who are working and people who are in retirement can feel that same sense of guilt for spending their money. And for working people, I think it’s all about the fact they have no idea how much they’re supposed to save. It’s just drilled into your head, save, save, save. And then when you finally go out and spend money on yourself, you just feel like, shoot, I should have saved that. But in reality, it’s just because no one feels like they’re saving enough and it’s because enough has never been defined.

Josh Robb:

It’s different for everyone. And like you said that concept of the trade-off between now and the future me, who needs that money more, and if you feel like you’re weighing more towards your current me, then you have that guilt towards, oh no, in the future I’m going to regret that decision. So yeah, you’re right. That’s one of those. Chase, what about those in retirement?

Chase Rose:

Yeah, just the transition to retirement in and of itself is a huge mental barrier. I think we’ve all experienced that firsthand working with retirees, just the transition from save, save, save to spend, spend, spend can be a huge obstacle to overcome. And really, obviously there’s income associated with being a retiree when you have an investment portfolio, but it’s a different type of income. When you’re going to work every day at your nine to five, and you have that steady income stream coming in that you’ve been working and earning your entire career, that is one type of income that people have that makes them feel much more safe. But that investment portfolio and the pension, social security, supplying your lifestyle can feel a little more volatile, which it is because it is invested in things that could lose their value. But yeah, that’s the biggest barrier for people is that mental side.

Josh Robb:

Well, you spend 40 years working towards building your nest egg with everybody telling you, “Don’t touch that, that’s for later. Don’t touch that.” And it is hard to change the mindset after 40 years of being told one thing to then one day say, “Okay, now I go the other direction.” And you’re right, it is a hurdle for a lot of people to unlock that spending.

Chase Rose:

Absolutely.

Austin Wilson:

Yeah, I think there’s a difference of mindset where when you’re working, spending money can be a little bit easier because you have levers, you can adjust. You could say, maybe I spent too much money this year or bought too much out. I could just work another year and then I can retire. It’s not a big deal. You can save more or work longer, but when you’re already retired, those two levers are pretty much gone. Yeah, you could pick up a part-time job or whatever, but most retirees aren’t. Maybe they don’t want to do that, maybe that’s not part of their plan. So your levers are a little bit different.

Chase Rose:

Absolutely.

 

[4:07] – How to Enjoy Spending NOW (Even Before Retirement)

Austin Wilson:

Yeah. So now let’s talk about how to enjoy spending now when you think you should be saving for retirement. So this kind of alludes to what Jess was talking about earlier, maybe this is the leading up to retirement. So Jess, have you ever worked with someone who just, they couldn’t let themselves spend money on anything that’s fun, anything unnecessary? And how do you help them break through that?

Jessica Hinks:

Yeah, I’ve worked with loads of clients who don’t want to spend their money. I probably have more clients who don’t spend enough than actually spend too much, which seems ironic.

Josh Robb:

Yeah, underspend versus overspend.

Jessica Hinks:

Yeah. But left unchecked, I myself can be one of those under-spenders. So I actually have a narrative that I tell myself to let myself spend money without feeling guilt. And I just think three things. One, I know exactly how much I need to save to have a successful retirement. Two, I know that I’m either meeting or exceeding those saving goals. So really that’s just left with if my future me is good, what can I do now to enhance my life and my family’s life? And so recently that might’ve been building a playset in my backyard or taking a trip with my family or finally replacing my old carpet. So things like that, I would have trouble giving myself permission to spend, but I know I can.

Josh Robb:

Yup. And you’ve mentioned a couple of times knowing how much you need to save. So having a plan and knowing where you’re going allows you that freedom now, because if you’re just randomly saving, hoping at some point you get to some number, you don’t even know what it is, that doesn’t relieve that stress. So you have to know at least the direction you’re heading and where you’re trying to get to, to know if you’re on track. So coming up with that financial plan is the big first step to that.

Chase Rose:

Absolutely.

Josh Robb:

Because you’re right, everybody asks us that question, “How much do I need to save?” And it’s a different number for everybody, but you can help them get to that answer by figuring out what they’re trying to achieve. And once you get there, then you can say, “Well, you have currently, everything left over there is nothing associated with that. That is free money that you can do something else with.”

 

[6:08] – Do the Projections Show That You Can Spend Your $$$?

Austin Wilson:

So I guess the question for all three of you advisors at the table is what was the light bulb moment that you had with a client where they’re like, “Oh my goodness, I get it now. I can go spend some money and I’m going to go on vacation.” Or whatever that is.

Jessica Hinks:

Do you want to go first, Chase?

Chase Rose:

I think just a great example, this is more of a general statement as opposed to a specific circumstance. But oftentimes we have different methods of tracking retirees’ spending, and oftentimes they might get a year or two in and we show them what their withdrawal rate is and we show them what their sustainable withdrawal rate is. And if those are two different numbers, that’s almost a scenario where they’re seeing their spending lower than what they could be spending. It’s like, “Oh, maybe I can go do this extra thing that maybe I wasn’t wanting to originally because I don’t have that normal paycheck coming in.”

Jessica Hinks:

And I’ve had new clients too come in who aren’t retired, and they’re like, “I feel like I should be saving more.” So we run the projections, and I can think of one couple in particular where I just told them, “You don’t need to increase your savings rate, just do exactly what you’re doing, and you are on track to retire at 60 like you want. And so you actually have excess cash.” So next thing you know, they’re taking a family trip, they’re maybe giving money to their kids, they’re doing things they’ve always wanted, and that actually feels really good for me too because I get to see them live a life fulfilled. So that’s fulfilling.

Josh Robb:

Yeah. And I think too, one of those kind of light bulb moments is when you realize the future’s unknown. And so the other side of this is, especially if you have kids, they’re only young once and you only can do certain things at certain stages of life. And for me, kind of that light bulb moment was seeing other people kind of look back and say, oh, I wish I would’ve done this or that. So as soon as you’re kind of saving what you need to, that light bulb moment is there are opportunities now that I may never get. I could be saving this for future me, but future me can’t do what I can do now. And making sure that I’m balancing the current opportunities versus the future opportunities and getting to that point, because again, there’s only so much about the future. You don’t know how long you’re going to live and what that’ll look like health-wise and opportunities. So taking some advantage now is ideal for most people.

Chase Rose:

And what I will add to that is unfortunately there’s a specific circumstance that comes up quite a bit that can be that light bulb moment for people, especially for those who are leading up to retirement and saving for retirement. It’s when they have someone close to them or someone that they know who passed away prematurely long before they should have. Oftentimes that’s a click in someone’s brain that says, “Wow, life really is short. You never know when your time is.” and so yeah, it’s great save for future you, but you also need to enjoy current you as well because you never know when your time is.

Josh Robb:

And I do see a lot of that guilt in those situations because if you inherit money from a situation like that, part of that guilt is, can I enjoy this? Because it came out of a tragic situation, right? So this new money that’s here now, if I use it, is that in some way dishonoring the person who passed that gave me this money? And so you see a lot of the struggle with people that they early on especially don’t want to spend this money. They kind of push it to the side and like, “I don’t know what to do with this.” And I think part of it is that guilt of if I’m enjoying this, is that because I’m happy they’re not here? Which is not the case in any way. And that money was set there by that person so you can have a future and a life and be able to enjoy it. But that guilt, I think a lot of times comes from that inheritance piece of this money came out of tragedy. Can I even enjoy it?

Jessica Hinks:

And this is kind of a rabbit trail, but I think a huge key to not having guilt to spending your wealth, whether it was earned or inherited, is spending it in a way that’s either aligned with your values or what you perceive of the values of the person you inherited from. That’s why I don’t feel guilty when I want to spend money on my family, because that’s my value, my family is my value. So yeah, if you can figure out what your mom or dad, whoever it was that left you money would have wanted you to do with it, I think you’ll feel a lot more peace about spending it.

Josh Robb:

Yes, definitely.

Austin Wilson:

Have you ever felt overwhelmed by the complexities of managing your wealth? You’re not alone. Hixon Zuercher Capital Management specializes in helping families and individuals navigate the challenges of managing their finances. Wealth management is all about combining thoughtful financial planning with active investment management to help you reach your goals. Our process is designed to guide you towards what truly matters because we believe wealth isn’t the destination. It’s a vehicle for something much more meaningful in your life. Achieving your dreams requires careful planning, smart decision making, and access to high quality investments.

And that’s where we come in. We understand that complex financial situations call for deep expertise in investing, tax strategies and retirement planning, but our approach goes beyond that. We integrate your financial goals with your core values, helping you visualize the possibilities your wealth can create for a secure future. Our mission is to build, protect, and grow your wealth while keeping your vision at the forefront of our strategies. If you’re ready to take the next step in your wealth management journey, visit hzcapital.com/start to see if we’d fit your needs and to schedule your intro call. Again, that’s hzcapital.com/start. Now let’s get back to today’s episode.

 

[11:40] – Outside Noise Affecting Money-Related Decisions

Austin Wilson:

So let’s talk a little bit more about that shift in mindset once you retire, where you go from having to save all these years to having to start spending that money. Obviously we talked about some of the difficulties that people have transitioning because that’s hard, that’s a big mental block. But I think the question is a lot of people need permission, they feel like, to spend their money, and that’s what financial advisors should be able to do, is if they put together a well-executed plan, they should be the ones to be able to give permission to have those clients start spending the money. But it’s not just advisors who are telling people to spend their money once they hit that moment. So what are some conflicting opinions that people are getting, whether that be from family, from friends or whatever, aside from you guys in retirement?

Josh Robb:

Yeah, sometimes it’s the same message from different people. We may be saying, “Hey, you can spend a little bit more,” and their kids may be saying as well, “Hey, Mom, Dad, enjoy. We’re fine. You don’t need to save it for us. Enjoy this money.” So sometimes it’s the same message from two different places, but sometimes it’s the opposite where maybe the kids don’t know the full financial picture and they’re encouraging one action and we’re saying the other, and then the parents are stuck trying to decide which one do I want to do.

Chase Rose:

With that being said, I mean oftentimes it might not even be a direct message. Someone might not be telling someone something, but think of a situation where most people who are approaching retirement normally have kids who are approaching college. This is just an example, and while your kids are wanting to go off to college, what as a parent do you want to do? You want to help them pay for their college, right? And so when you have to decide between having to pay for someone’s college or spending on yourself, it can be a hard conversation to have. And even that’s a big topic that financial advisors help their clients answer all the time. So yeah.

Jessica Hinks:

I feel like it’s my job to tell my clients they can go spend their money if the facts support it, if they can meet all their goals, like supporting their kids’ college, paying for their daughter’s wedding, retiring. But I think more than anything, it does come down to the family. Every once in a while, I’ve had a client come in and they said something like, “You know, I was talking to my daughter and apparently she’s a lot better off than I thought she was, and she told me I should just go spend my money.” And that, I just want to sing praises to that child. I’m like, “Thank you. Actually, your parent needed to hear that.” Thankfully I’ve never heard the opposite or else…

Austin Wilson:

“Stop spending money.”

Yeah, don’t spend. I need it later.

 

[14:08] – Here’s What You SHOULD Spend Your Money On

Josh Robb:

I think that that’s a realization that we all want people we love to experience is, “Listen, Mom and Dad for example, or whatever, you worked hard for 40 years, we want you to spend your money on you. We’re fine.” That’s a great realization that the generation above you should be able to have, which is awesome. So let’s talk about some key takeaways, really some thoughts about this topic overall. So if you guys could each give, I’m going to put all three advisors on the spot, give people one permission slip to spend guilt-free on something, what would it be?

Chase Rose:

Yourself.

Josh Robb:

That’s a bucket right there.

Chase Rose:

That’s a very open-ended question.

Josh Robb:

Food, Chase?

Chase Rose:

Yeah, food for sure.

Josh Robb:

I would say, yeah. For me, if I look at, and this is pre-retirement and post-retirement experiences. Because I think a lot of times you could get stuff and stuff just lasts for a finite amount of time, but whether it’s a couple or a family, creating those experiences, memories I think are the most useful spending of that money, especially for those people who struggle to spend the money. We talk about that guilt piece. If they know they’re doing it for the family, like you talked about Jess, it’s maybe a little easier to book a trip that you’re going to take with all your kids versus buying something that you’re just going to look at and feel guilty every time you look at it. Whereas when you think on the trip, you’re going to think about the positive memories you built and it’s not that guilt piece.

Jessica Hinks:

I was going to say the same thing. All my best memories growing up with my parents were doing something. Now, maybe it’s a trip or maybe it’s just a trip to the zoo, but the point is you’re doing something. So I find so much value in that.

Austin Wilson:

Chase, is food really your answer?

Chase Rose:

Well always pay your taxes.

Josh Robb:

Yeah, always pay your taxes.

Chase Rose:

Pay your utility bill.

Austin Wilson:

That’s not guilt-free spending. That’s necessity.

Josh Robb:

Yeah, it’s required.

Chase Rose:

Touché, touché.

 

[16:01] – The True Purpose of Money

Josh Robb:

Now if you could tell someone one thing about the purpose of money. So sometimes that’s the underlying thing that guilt comes from, is what’s the purpose of money anyways? How would you phrase that or how would you let somebody get past that guilt piece by better framing what money is there for?

Chase Rose:

Yeah, this ties really well into a previous podcast topic we’ve actually talked about is does money buy happiness? Money, your life savings is a tool for you to do the things that you want to do, to do the things that make you happy. And so whether that’s just being enough to live on so you can go volunteer with your favorite organization or whether that is saving enough for you to be able to withdraw funds and go take those trips or whatever it is that you want to do. Yeah, that’s really the purpose of your money is to buy yourself freedom, buy yourself happiness, to allow you the time and the resources to do the things you want to do.

Austin Wilson:

Yeah, I think at the end of the day, money is essentially a means of exchange for goods and services, right? So money is not there to just sit in an account and grow forever and ever and ever and ever. Maybe that’s something you want to do is leave a legacy with your finances and we’ll be talking about that plenty in the future. But money is there to spend, money is there to buy things and do things and have experiences. And if you’re not using it for that, you’re kind of missing the point.

Jessica Hinks:

Yeah, you always hear the saying that money’s the root of all evil, but really I think money is just, it just enhances who you are. So if you’re spending money on things that are valuable to you, that are aligned again with your core values, I think it’s going to bring you a lot more peace and it’s going to bring you a lot more impact and a lot more legacy.

Chase Rose:

Another thing I will add to that, you mentioned money is the root of all evil. So people can often tie this number in their brain or tie their happiness to a number in their portfolio. I think it’s the love of money or the need to have a certain amount of money in your portfolio that can be the root of that evil. And so using the money, as we’ve already talked about, a tool for happiness and not tying your happiness to the money itself is really important.

Austin Wilson:

I think sometimes it’s a fear as well, right?

Chase Rose:

Sure, yeah.

Austin Wilson:

Yeah. We can talk about that number, but that number is largely based on fear. If I go below this number, something’s not going to work or whatever like that. And I don’t think that’s necessarily a happy relationship with money either. As long as your financial advisor isn’t ringing you up on the phone saying, “Hey, we got to make some changes.” Your plan’s probably still going to be fine. Whether some arbitrary number was hit or not.

Josh Robb:

Don’t tie your self-worth to your net worth. I mean, that’s really what it is. Right?

Chase Rose:

I want a t-shirt, write that down.

Josh Robb:

That’s what it is, is who I am is not defined by my bank account. That’s just one result of what I’ve done, but also a tool to then further my values and what I try to do best.

Jessica Hinks:

And for the record, when people do have that number in mind, like when I have $2 million in my portfolio, then I’ll be able to relax, then I’ll feel peace.

Josh Robb:

They never do.

Jessica Hinks:

I’ve seen people get to their number, they feel no different, and the next thing you know, it’s a new number. It’s a new number.

Austin Wilson:

You’re always chasing.

Jessica Hinks:

They never get there.

Chase Rose:

Yep, absolutely.

 

[19:03] – Advice & Key Takeaways

Austin Wilson:

So if someone is struggling with guilt about spending money, what’s one quick piece of advice you would tell them?

Josh Robb:

One of the easiest advices is start spending on something that you’re going to be excited about, whether it’s giving to someone else or utilizing it for others, because you have less guilt if you’re going to be spending some of that money for others, whether it’s your family or charity or whatever it is. But that’s a nice easy step to say, “Okay, spend the money but not on you.” And that usually helps them release that a little bit and move forward.

Jessica Hinks:

My advice is figure out what’s excess. Figure out what you need to pursue your goals, which means you actually have to take time to identify them.

Josh Robb:

Get a plan.

Jessica Hinks:

Yeah. And then the rest is just the fluff, right? So you can give yourself permission to spend the fluff.

Josh Robb:

Chase, anything else?

Chase Rose:

Yeah, I would say kind of playing off what you already said, Jessica, but oftentimes people are spending and they might feel guilty about it, but just a healthy reminder, whether it be from a financial advisor or from someone you trust that maybe you’re not spending too much. Because I feel like that is the aspect that brings guilt, right? I’m spending this money, but it might be too much, so future me is going to suffer for it. Just a healthy reminder that you’re not spending too much can be that motivating factor to not feel guilty about it. And I think an important part of that is a word that people are scared of is the B word, right? The budget word. You don’t need to budget, but at least track for a few months at a time-

Josh Robb:

Be aware.

Chase Rose:

Be aware of what you’re spending and I think that goes a long way.

Austin Wilson:

My favorite financial blog calls it mindful spending.

Josh Robb:

There you go.

Austin Wilson:

There you go.

Jessica Hinks:

At first I thought you were going to reference someone else’s blog. About to have hands.

Austin Wilson:

#theeverydayadvisor.com. Go check it out. All right, well thank you Jess, thank you Chase for joining us on this conversation today. If you found value in our conversation, don’t forget to subscribe to The Wealth Mindset Show on whatever platform you’re on so you never miss an episode. Visit us at thewealthmindsetshow.com for more resources or if you’re ready to invest with us or you’d love to hear, “You’re doing just fine, go spend your money,” hopefully, go to the hzcapital.com/invest with us and start there. And we’d also invite you to follow us on all of our social media platforms to stay connected. So thank you for listening and we’ll be back in the next episode.

Josh Robb:

All right, talk you later. Thanks. Bye.

 

Thank you for joining us at The Wealth Mindset Show where we tackle the complexities of finance and life planning to help you align your wealth with your values. We hope today’s conversation provided value and clarity as you navigate your financial journey.

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